Interview with Jason McGarvy conducted by Tara Lokke
​
Tara:
Thank you again for participating in [Beat Your Gums 00:00:03], please state that you understand the details about my project and knowing that you give your consent and participating under the circumstances agreed upon and signed in the consent and release form.
 

Jason:
I do, I do, just in case you can’t hear me.
 

Tara:
All right so I’m going to start with basic details. So things like where you where, your branch, company.
 

Jason:
Yeah. Ah okay, ah, how can I …
 

TL:
It will be able to hear you for the most part.
 

Jason:
Okay, okay yeah. Ah, well I was in the US Army from a … I signed in a, I signed at February of 2003, didn’t, didn’t go in until May because there was back roll. It just so that happens fairly often and it usually depends on what your ah job was going to be. Your military occupations, specialty, MOS. So if you hear me say MOS in the future, that’s military occupation specialty, and it’s, and it’s equivalent to job. Ah, that’s going to annoy me. All right so, ah so May 2013, ah obviously coinciding with the invasion into Iraq, oh that really had no bearing on … I-I needed a job. I dropped out of college, and ah it was getting very antsy at the house. And there were other, less noble reasons for doing it, so but ah … Anyway regardless ah I joined the army. In 2000, May in 2003 is when I went to basic and all that stuff. Ah it’s very, ah okay so ah as far as ah … Like what was the other part of it, like …?
 

TL:
Ah, things like your company, division spot.
 

Jason:
Well yeah that’s all, yeah that’s ah one in the military you’ll, you never rarely do you stay in the same job. Especially nowadays, I mean, I guess formerly back in the days you may have stayed in the same regiment, which is kind of a non-character nowadays, but you would have stayed in the same regiment for your whole career. And it’s probably more applicable to National Guard nowadays where they’ll stay in the same unit forever. They’ll know the same people forever. They’ll become community with the same people. That doesn’t exist in the active duty world. Ah you-you know, you know the people for as long as you know them then you move, and do whatever. So quick litany of places I was from October 2003 which is, coincides with after I finished my training. October 2003 to April 2004, I was in Okinawa with these guys, 505th Quartermaster Battalion.
 

 
I was ah, for the most of my career I was a chaplain assistant oddly enough because ah, at the time I was somewhat religious. Huh, that since faded but ah regardless ah, and my own reasons for that. Ah, so October 2003 to April 2004, I was with those guys in Okinawa. Okinawa is a very beautiful place, I recommend anyone go there. What I found there was when people are ah, people got island fever if they were … You know, it’s a great place for 6 months which is about the time I was there. Ah, so you know you get to see the island, all sorts of things. Um I remember culture shock when I first got over there. Ah, you know you expect the ah, the stereotypical image would be that of maybe like Karate Kid part 2 if you’ve ever seen that, and if you knew this culture at all. Ah, but no when I got there, it was a urban, very urban.
 

 
I mean it looked almost like ah, trying to think of a good analogy in the States. Let me think for a second. Can’t think of one, ah but if anyone has ever been … You know it’s fairly reminisce of Tokyo only on a much smaller scale. Ah, just you know high-rises everywhere. Ah just lot, obviously lots of Japanese written everywhere. Ah, Okinawa itself was very fairly cosmopolitan. There’s a lot Japanese, but a lot of them were of Okinawa descent. A fair number of Taiwanese, fair … A shit ton of ah Filipinos. Ah, mm hmm just kind of demographic. Ah, they weren’t too keen on the US … They weren’t too keen on the marines particularly because marines are marines and they just believe in pillaging whatever place they live.
 

 
I wonder if you’ve ever ran across any … A very brainwashed ah … Oh, you’ll find that, yeah I’m very ... I don’t know, each branch has its own prejudices versus other branches for whatever reasons. So is that … Okay so long story short from April 2004 to October 2005 I was in mainland Japan, had Camp Zama with if I could find these guys. 35th service and support, service and sustainment and I can’t recall anymore ah Battalion. Yeah it’s right there. Ah-ah, go back to the long story short, ah the army in its infinite administrative wisdom decided to send somebody else to Okinawa. Um, and the reason they did that was because both 35th and the 505th belong, fell under the same ah higher headquarters. Of course they were just in 2 different places. One in Niijima Japan, one in Okinawa, separated by good distance, ah a 2-hour plane ride.
 

 
But they-they said, “Oh, well” You know this-this other guys was supposed to come to, you know was supposed to fall under the higher headquarters, and administratively in the higher headquarters he would have, he would have been received there and then would have been sent out to the 35th. Problem was 35th was on Honshu, not Okinawa. And because I was single at the time, and he was married with I don’t know if his wife was pregnant or not, but regardless he was married. It was a lot easier to move me. So he took my job, and I moved to mainland Japan. Long story short, that’s what that was. Ah, so I spent the remainder of what was supposed to be a 2-year tour which pretty much ended up being a 2-year tour in mainland Japan. There I took a hostage of what most people would called wife. Ah, Japanese woman, very nice woman. Ah, somewhat … She grew-she grew up on, with parents that were … Her parent … One she was 9 years older than me so, and she grew up with parents that were born on the tail end of World War II.
 

 
So they were very familiar with ah post, you know post-World War II Japan which is very ah decimated ah from the war. Not just-not just-not just the nuclear bombs but also the ah just Japan’s ah movement throughout the years. I’m not going to get into that history, but ah. So her parents were very familiar with the whole American post-war occupation. And-and they-they held no real resentment toward … In fact her father ah, her father was very ah … He-he liked various aspects of American culture. Especially he liked whisky. Of course I did too at the time, so yeah we could … But in Japanese culture is nothing if not xenophobic, xenophobic. They don’t really … And I don’t, I don’t mean that in-in any derogatory fashion. I just … Anyway ah they weren’t too keen on us getting married. I didn’t find that out until after the fact, but whatever.
 

 
Ah, yeah so from until October ’05 I was there in Japan. Ah, from there based-based on what ended up being November ’05 to ah August ’08, I was in Fort Riley Kansas which is about 2 hours west of um, 2 hours west of Kansas City. A beautiful town in Manhattan Kansas. The Kansas State is there so Kan … Manhattan is actually a pretty cool town. It’s a coz town mixed with military, so it’s not all CD, but it’s not all like you know in Grenola. Ah, it was a good mix of … And I was there with a Second Battalion 16th Infantry. Now up until this time I had not deployed. So all the war that was going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, I-I didn’t know it, I’m just, I’m soldier. I-I, this is just a job at this point. Ah, and I spent 4, excuse me, 4 month trying to get my wife over to the States vis-à-vis I guess what is now INS. No, what-whatever, whatever the hell it is now.
 

 
Ah, but you know so we spent 4 months separated. Um, the process of me trying to get her immigrated over here ah, so, so in February she finally got over here. Ah, February 6th she finally got over here. We ah spent about a year together before we deployed, before my unit, she didn’t deploy. Ah, my unit deployed to Iraq, we spent 14½ months there. Ah, under the leadership of ah Colonel, Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Kauzlarich, and I-I mention that because he is, he was one of the investigating, investigating officer into the Pat Tillman Case, when he was a he ah part of brigade, part of regimental staff there at the Ranger Regiment. Ah, the only reason this is significant, is because a lot of his … A lot of … During that deployment, a lot of this stuff came out, like his inter … Like just prior to his interview with Sports Center about why he thinks the Tillmans are … Why he thinks the Tillmans are still pursuing justice.
 

 
In this case, and his answer was lessen appealing. Ah, basically equating their atheist into his … And he, he-he was a very staunch Catholic ah and he-he held that. I mean he held strong today. He attended chapel services when a vast majority of our soldiers didn’t. And I’m a chapel assistant, I knew this. Ah, I-I mean, so you know history, what, whatever history about the man exists is not you know … It seems to be fairly one-sided, but that’s … He-he was I don’t know, he was pre-occupied with that during his deployment. And I don’t know that that affected what went on during the deployment, but it was less you know. Ah, I think probably what would have happened, would have happened anyway. Ah, we-we were just there during the inserg, during-during the Petraeus’ insurgency where they sent fire brigades over. We were part of one of those brigades.
 

 
And we you know did a lot of, we did a lot of killing and we did you know, we had a few … We had 16 people die in overtime so. And probably 7 that you’re so … That were sent back and replaced obviously. Um, and as a chapel assistant I had to make sure that each and every one of those services was, or memorial ceremonies rather was conducted with proper modicums of respect and honor that are due to, due dead soldiers. Ah, and I did that, no one, no one complained about any of my work over there. And that was the only time I really, you that was the only time that Chapel assistant has any respect whatsoever when they conduct that work. It’s not … When that, and when that work’s conducted, it’s not like, “Hey yeah, great, great job.” It’s more like, “Thank you.” It’s more like, “Thank you good job, and then okay, go on about whatever you do,” because no one really cares what you do other than that.
 

 
Am, okay I’m dragging this on, it seems like. Ah, okay so from there I realized I have a, oh have a time that’s not covered by those coins. Ah, regardless okay. So August ’08 I PCS to Hawaii, and reenlisted for it in the mid, in-in Iraq. So it was a good … You know, Hawaii seemed like a good place. My wife was very excited for it because Jap … You know one, the connection to Japanese culture that exist over there. So that’s why. Ah, so I went to Hawaii, um worked at a signal brigade as the chapel assistant for say … When did I … From September ’08 to March 2010 and that, and then you have no coin to represent that, I apologize. Yeah that’s a … Yeah. I-I didn’t do anything over there. It was, I could get off work way too early and I don’t, I don’t recall having any issues with my deployment, during that period of time. Although, I don’t know, although I drank a lot after that, but then again I drank a lot before that deployment. Ah, before getting into the army, so that-that really didn’t … Drinking was a [inaudible 00:15:36], it was not PT.
 

 
Although, maybe-maybe it had some influence, I really don’t know. That’s a question I don’t know to this day. But anyway, so March 2010, ah-ah … Let me go back. Ah, January 2010, earthquake in Haiti happens. Ah one of the guys ah set to come over to Hawaii, to one of the chaplaincies and positions under me. Ah, gets diverted to Haiti, I mean he’s there for 3 months, and then he’s ah … He eventually comes, but ah by that time, they needed someone to deploy to Afghanistan with one of the signal battalions, and because I’m the only fit body person, and they don’t want to … I-I’m still little bitter about this. Ah, because I’m the fit body person and they don’t want to actually work with an outside, an outside unit, they just pull me to do this, and obviously I’m little bitter about it.
 

 
Ah so I deploy with these guys in a position that is below my pay grade. So I go with these guys for 12 months, not, no mortal danger over there. The only death we had was non-combat related. Woman oddly enough had a heart attack. But you know a heart attack. She was on a trade mill and she started seizing, and passed out and what not. She probably … It was probably the … She felt like she was overweight when she first started because she had just had a kid not too terribly long before that. So she probably pull some part of weight that she had. That she wanted to get rid off, so she worked extra hard to do all the stuff and she probably put too much of a toll on her body. Most likely that’s what happened, I’m not going to say definitely.
 

 
Anyway regardless, the only thing I really did in, during that deployment other than piss people off, ah was … I take that back. 2 things I did during the deployment. One was this where, her memorial ceremony, you know we set up it up the same modicum of respect and honor that we always do. And you know, the unit was fine, they were pleased. They were exceptionally pleased that I you know, that I was able to conduct this professionally, because I’m usually … I was usually a fairly laid back person. I’m like, “What does it matter … You know?” I always ah, I always adapted the, “Does this really matter” mentality. And but you know, I could all … During the … During those things, during those memorials ceremonies, I always to say, you know what maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t matter, but I flipped whatever switch inside my head to say, “You know what this matters to somebody.”
 

 
So, you know I set out to be as professional as possible in those things. Um, yeah. With that, that was the first thing that happened. The other major significant event that happened was ah my old chaplain was ah, on, my old chaplain was on leave. I had a soldier come up to me, who expressed the desire to kill himself. Now, one would think that I was duty bound to report this. One would be wrong based upon the way the army regulation was stated that and um, this is, this is being um, this is interpreted this way by the-the army chaplaincy. So I’m not taking my own stance here. The army chaplaincy basically determined that anyone coming to a chaplain or one of its agents, in other words his assistant acting on behalf is receiving basically something in spiritual confidence.
 

 
Which means it-it is absolutely confidential, meaning I don’t have to
 

Jason:
Is receiving basically something in spiritual confidence, which means it’s absolutely confidential. Meaning I don’t have to put in fact unless I obtain information from this person, I can’t report it. So, I don’t report this. I’m like men, (laughs) they would, they would iterate. Because he later, he later just freaks out and ah basically, how do they find out? Well, he freaks out in front of the command who they have … You know, they have the obligation to report it, so they report it, they send him, they send him on his merry way, they dope him up he gets, you know he goes and leave eventually, he’s you know, he’s just a young kid who basically it turned out he’s just a young kid who just can’t deal with something.
 

 
What that something was it don’t matter in the end. Ah, but, so they go … come back on me, they try to charge me with ah; you know dereliction of duty and soldier endangerment various earthling. I’m like, “You fuckers are wrong.” And I … and I’m not the most tactful in battling this, but I basically tell my executive officer, major ah, his name is not important, but I basically tell him “Sir, I’m smarter than you, I know what … I know what’s right, I know you’re wrong and you can’t do this to me.” He didn’t take kindly that ah for obvious reasons, no one likes to be told they’re dumb, whatever.
 

 
Ah, so, he basically tried to pull it in that and then I call, I call the chapter Sam’s like, “Hey, here is what happened.” I mean I’ll tell you whatever consequences they are but what are the consequences?” And he is like, “Of course you’re right,” I’m like, “That’s what I thought.” So they go, you know there’s pissing contest between ah, between the higher commander, these guys um and the higher chaplaincies. Basically 2 difference 06 is 06 football game in the army. Ah, so they near the pissing contest they eventually say, “You know what? Yeah, you can’t do anything to this soldier, this soldier being me. Ah, so, so they ah, they’ll be grudgingly accept that, my commanders.
 

 
Ah, but the rest of it is just is very hostile for the rest of the appointment and I-I internalized a lot of hostility, l I don’t think they’ve told us hostility, I don’t think they felt this hostile, I don’t think they felt as hostile as I did. Actually I’m almost positive they didn’t. Ah, but that affected me. And in the midst of all my, basically is something to go back and here is the third thing that happened to me. In the midst of all that, my wife basically says, “I’m done, we’re done.” And is someone I was just through ah the nature, you know this is a second appointment, we spent half our marriage apart, visited the deployment, me going places and stuff and the waiting for her for 4 months. So we spend half our marriage apart.
 

 
Ah, in the 6 years we were married, I had one, one Valentine’s Day, one, ah, nothing, it is what it is. Ah, so I get back June of 2011 and I just, you know I break down. Ah, because my-my wife is, my wife basically said we’re done, a lot have always blame, in fact I can’t blame her for much of any blames, a lot it was always me and maybe her … The only thing I could say that she probably has any plans for her expectations and you can’t even manage those sometimes. But, yeah, so between, so between divorce, between ah better perception of the unit ah between ah, you know just my distractive drinking habits, I just spend 2 months nonstop just drinking like probably 2 handles every 2 days if that gives you any idea.
 

 
Yeah, that’s … So I do that for about 2 months, in the midst of all this, I thought damn, let me go back, of four things. The forth thing I did was I got tired of you know job and system to the point where I applied to go into civil affairs, so civil affairs being in the special operations world, I thought it was that cool. You know gives me something to do, gives me up with mobility in my career, gives me something to focus maybe, because this chaplaincy is not working. I joke ... they, used to joke and he says, “Why did you become a chaplain, why did you join the army,” “Well, I needed the money,” why do-why did you become a chaplain?”He says, “Because is the easiest fucking job in the army.” I-I still believe that by the way, I still believe it’s the easiest job in the army as fuck as all this shit.
 

 
But anyway, ah, so in the midst of all that, you asked me about my, you know the various companies, I guess I’m just giving you that and a whole bunch of information goes along with it. Ah, in the midst of all that, okay, so I go to airborne training, so I learn to jump out of perfectly shitty aircraft and so some people were scared of that, I’m just like, “Okay, I have to jump out of it.” I had to do this in order to … it was just something to do; it was a means to an end. So I do that and the night of … the night of after airborne graduation you know, I decided to go out and have 7 or 8 meaning, ah and I’m going to be back because I wanted to sleep because I’m tired and drunk. Ah, I meet the checkpoint at the gate and get a DY.
 

 
So you know any civil affairs career is at the window at this point, the Airborne School is stuck with an airborne graduate, but they don’t have anything to do, I can’t do my old job because there is nice little knee close in the job as far as chaplains systems are concerned that any-any … how about this, any article 15 in non judicial punishment is basically disqualifier for that MOS. So, I’m out of my old job, I’m out of the new job I was pursuing, and I’m stuck there and Airborne School is like, “What the hell do we do with this guy?”
 

 
Ah, so they start to figure out how to chapter or to separate me from the north, they can’t ah … they started this process and in the midst of it all I think, in the midst of it all I’ll be able to stay and for whatever, I’m scared at this point. I don’t know you know, I don’t know what I’m going to do with my life. I’m recently divorced, I’m out $40,000 because my internal was and decided to save money and my wife got half of that so had I not saved the money, she wouldn’t have gotten anything. So she benefited from my being cheap.
 

 
Ah, so, ah yeah. Ah now is like just some … and there were something that don’t right in my head to begin wit so, even before I joined the army, there is something that very bleed outlook so, all that, all that commenced to create very much this situation my part it’s and because I don’t know where to go. So I decide, so they eventually decided to let me stay in for whatever reason, ah, I don’t know. Maybe because I proved I was … maybe because I proved I was hardworking and maybe because they did see something out, whatever reason they kept me. They made me basically IT, at 25 Bravo which is the MOS for It basically.
 

 
I stayed at the airborne school for 7 months and probably the most peaceful 7 months I ever had. No, because I worked in the air, I worked at the main … I worked at the main served basically, they ah, they maintained all the apparatuses that were used to train this soldiers and what not and this parachutes, well, not the master chutes but various peripherals. Ah, we also maintained the facilities work there at the schools, so this I lived at the workshop for 7 months, it was awesome, even because you know I get … I get to do some stuff kinetically and just is so cathodic just do that.
 

 
And I had stopped drinking at this point, I was like I had 5 … by various means I had stopped drinking at this point. And then I go, they then send me to, ah just to go back, the unit, the unit where I had my better engagements, my command were 3 of 7 at the time which in Afghanistan we were in- we were in Afghanistan, ah Mazar e Sharrif apparently Alexander the Great’s dog died there and was buried over there. If you feel you’ll just take a nice little place over the Mazar e Sharrif and see the grave.
 

 
Ah, but anyway, so, so yeah, is and there we’ve a protest for [inaudible 00:30:47] you saw going there. Ah, so I go to I got four going in Augusta Georgia, ah, for training in these new memoirs and spent about 4 months there. Ah I guess in my mourning of my marriage, I decided to take another hostage, ah, and this is somewhat difficult in the sense that one she was already married, so it doesn’t work in the long run you know, I tried to make it work, goddamn I tried to make that shit work, for 2 years. 2 years after I finished school, I tried to make this work, and she wanted to make it work too, but she had kids and this is what made it not work.
 

 
Eventually she said, “My ex husband basically said, as long as you are pursuing that relationship, you can’t have the kids.” So she held off for 2 years which and damn it all in that woman or on my persuasive abilities, I don’t know, I’m not persuasive, I can’t do that. I don’t see what the fuck she saw in me, I don’t know. But anyway, so she ruined the life for me, ah, I didn’t really ruin my life, I didn’t have much more in the beginning.
 

 
So, in the midst of all that, so I do that, I become this IT guy. My airborne training comes back to haunt me, so they send me to Fort Bragg, over to watch secular point you see there. They liked me over there, me not drinking turns out to be a good thing because I’m not nearly as irritable or as defined, I’m still irritable and defined but not nearly as much and I do what I’m told and I don’t get in trouble, when I don’t drink, I don’t get in trouble, believe me or not, you not tend to get DYs and when you are sober.
 

 
Ah, ah, you tend to show up at work on time; you tend to do these things a little better than you did before, even though I was still good at doing, ah, but anyway. So I worked for these guys just, this is the culture on Fort Bragg, and I don’t know if you’ve ever met anybody from Fort Bragg or not. The culture on Fort Bragg is more can be done and more could done yesterday, why are you now working? Ah, wait; there is only 24 hours in a day? You are going to work like 27 hours a day. Failure is not an option there, you will get this done. We don’t give a fuck about your time off, we don’t care about your family, we want this shit done, we have things to do. No they don’t.
 

 
They have the same thing to do over and over and over and I swear to God. I carry the same me, not just me, but several others, we carry the same stack of service, hoping down through flights of stairs to various locations on Fort Bragg, doing what I call exercises. Ah doing exercises and we would do this, I swear to God, 30 times in a span of 2 years. These things are not like … and army doesn’t really care about why wait or what’s comfortable, they don’t, they give no shits. And proof of that is Airborne, you know the parachutes themselves they’re horribly uncomfortable.
 

 
You will do it, you suck it up, and that’s the mentality, but anyway, this service sucks, they-they-they’re weighing to110, 160 pounds, so a lot of carrying, a lot of this. Things like we need move, no, we still need to do updates on it, so we need to get back over there … “and a signal where people don’t communicate and communications where people don’t communicate. It don’t and this is endemic in the army, but as we real matter, really bad with them. And yet is just … and we would do and this cycle would run every 2 months, every 2 months we get, “Oh we got another exercise,” and supposedly is to prepare for this contingency or that or that, it was never for the same thing.
 

 
It was always to prepare for something else, and then eventually … hell, we deployed just to get a break, we deployed just to have some time to breath, we deploy to shut down Afghanistan, to end operation during freedom and it was … this was a plash deployment. This is one of those where if you, if you had to be deployed somewhere, this was it, is one it was on a camp that is built in and maintained by Europeans and Europeans know how to go to war.
 

 
How they dream, we did but they did in which didn’t matter to me at this point, not only had I given up the desire to doing so, so ah they, they built nice facilities for themselves to leave in comfort as they conduct the war against and you talk to any other soldiers, any other US service member who’s dealt with Europeans and they’ll tell you the same thing, they know how to go to war. Ah, the army had it, the US army had its, it’s where they’d send us to, they’d put up some tents and not get to fucks about whether you ate or not, or slept. Ah, but anyway, we-we did that from ah let me go back back give you some times.
 

 
Okay so Airborne School is August 2011, DY was September 2011, so from September 2011 to April 2012, on second year on school. Ah, April 2012 to September 2012, I’m in training for the new MLS. From October 2012, to basically when I got out of that duty, August of last year 2015 on Fort Bragg, Fort Bragg up to eyeballs in work. Ah, so basically I do that, we can probably come back and then I basically distance myself and I try to and for the most part, I get away with it. Ah, you know, then I just help run through another exercising they are going to do, so the last weeks, the last weeks in my actual work, I spend running around doing exercise that never ever again.
 

 
So, and then I actually cut it off, I’m like I’m  done, I got to get new transition now, because most of all that and most of those years from Airborne School too, I decided I can’t get out, I can’t do it, I can’t be successful in other places and other things, because I never really liked them. Oh, I didn’t join because I wanted to you know … because I had this desire to be a soldier fulfilling his great patriotic, no, I needed a fucking the job. Ah, and that stayed in my head for the longest time, and then I realized that I felt my brain urge of feel for over 12 years. I felt myself getting stupid, it’ probably not what happened but ah so my career, so my career as so various companies and stuff like that, that answered your fast questions, not the long answers.
 

TL:
So (laughs) what made you come back to school then or come here specifically?
 

Jason:
[inaudible 00:39:47]?
 

TL:
Yeah.
 

Jason:
Fairly interesting, okay so … okay so in the midst of being at Fort Bragg, this is where a lot my transition, a lot of my change, a lot my internal change occurs ah it’s where I started deciding you know what? I don’t need to be in the army any more, I don’t need to be full act of duty, I don’t, I-I need to move. So I-I do all that and so I start thinking about okay what am I going to do? You know a teacher, lawyer and all these other things ah pop in my head I’m still very, I’m still very anti social. So oddly enough it all started with um not at all started, but it starts with me and my me and my anti social nature and looking up work that would appeal to my anti social nature, nature, yeah that would appeal to my anti social nature.
 

 
And I find being an actuary is I was like, “Oh cool I get to do my own work and have people not bother me,” customer ser-cause especially with the IT thing. A lot of it was customer service I hate fucking customers, customer’s always wrong. I don’t care what work says when they’re all … No they’re always wrong and they’re always idiotic about it too. Ah, I’ve learned to be a lot more patient as someone on the other side of the counter so to speak on proverbial counter. Cause I don’t I don’t particularly you know I know they deal with bulls shit all day, they deal with people entitle pricks you know you see it every-I’m sure you see it everywhere, and if you don’t then you might be one of them no offense but …
 

TL:
(Laughing)
 

Jason:
Uh I just dealing … Like in the army I swear to God most of most of my entitle pricks were ah, ah were just staples who just wanted this that and the other. And they didn’t understand that in order to get this that and the other there was a whole plethora of things that needed to occur beforehand, ah they just didn’t care, they just wanted what they wanted and that’s it. In fact there’s a quick little joke that goes like so ah, guy goes to heaven he’s like, “God can you explain the whole officers rank structure to me?” He said, “Yeah sure.” So second lieutenants right? They have ah, they have that gold bar because they’re basically malleable, we can shape them we can form them into who they need to be.
 

 
Ah first lieutenants they have a silver so it’s not as malleable but it’s basically saying that their forged somewhat in their experience. Ah more so with captains with two with the two bars that are tied together so that they are really rigid in a positive sense in a sense that they know the path, they know the way. Full bird kinds are like eagles in the sky soaring over everything that is under them and making sure everything is right. And the generals are like starts in the heavens where you know they’re … The stars in the heavens where like this is something to aspire to.
 

 
It’s like, “That’s great but how do you explain the oak leaf clusters on majors and retired colonels?” He says, “Well those are really just to cover up my pricks.” Cause that’s what I found is that majors and lieutenant colonels for most part are pricks. They want what they want because they’re trying to please someone above them and they don’t really care about people below them, and the people that share their rank they’re just you know they’re in competition with them, so.
 

 
That joke will make more sense to people who are actually familiar with the marine structure I don’t know if you are or not. Ah where the hell was I? Oh how to get to UConn, ah okay so. Ah so I look into various actuarial programs or what not ah and I’m doing all this while I’m deployed, and ah I don’t know how a whole bunch of side hobbies in the midst of all that. I’d love to tell you about them and I might depending if your questions allow for it. Ah but as I’m looking I’m looking at various programs and what not, UConn was not the first thing on my …. Was actually looking pra-pragmatically a good a good choice is actually ah the CUNY Baruch in New York City.
 

 
And it was … And I say pragmatically because ah with the post 9/11 Montgomery … Post 9/11 GI Bill, they offer BAH, BAH being housing allowance based on your zip code. Well who offers better BAH fucking New York City, who offers more of a housing allowance. I mean me being a cheap as that I am I probably could have got a place for like 1500/2000 and the BAH was 3700 a month, so the rest of it would have been … Looking back that probably would have been spent on food because and just transport and what not the city.
 

 
But okay so I’m looking at that but in the midst of all that I’m looking at other places. Ah April of last year 2015 I decided to go on … Decided to … Or I want I go on leave and ah just drive up to a few colleges just to see. One of them was ah University of Wisconsin in Madison and I drove up there Madison School, you ever been to Madison? No Madison’s a cool town oh my God. A-one it’s all laid out it sits in between 2 lakes well it sits where the state’s capital and a lot of the cultural center is stays is in between 2 lakes.
 

 
Ah University of Wisconsin’s like right next to it to the west ah and you could walk there and there in fact I did a couple of days. Ah so that-that was a cool town then I went over to Penn State and Penn state was the stereotypical college town with all its trappings and [inaudible 00:46:30] this place probably sucks. Ah then I come here and see UConn and I see this and this is very rural very quiet corner what they call it I guess. Ah any other’s driving around yeah there’s a lot less of the so-social and cultural infrastructure here than it was in Madison.
 

 
Madison’s just perfect for anyone who loves s-not city, city life but like something where you could feel at home and Madison’s perfect for a place like that. But for whatever reason this place just over the months as I ruminated on where to go where to go this seems more and more more likely is a good place. And I don’t regret the decision, so in the midst of all that I say I apply to, I apply to Wisconsin and I apply to here and just out of all the places I could have gone I could have gone to UC Santa Barbara, University of Nebraska, University of IOWA was like Ohio State and I could have gone to all these places could have gone to Georgia State.
 

 
But you know what? I spent most of my life in the south, south so I was like, “Let me not live in the south anymore not, not, not for any ah political reason not for any weather reasons, not for anything else. I just want something else, and so it was really between here and Wisconsin. And for whatever reason this seemed better and better’s not the right word this seemed more [inaudible 00:48:02]. Ah so this-this kind of how I ended up here, and I actually came up here before they even accepted me so took a risk.
 

 
I mean they could have said no you know then I would have eventually I would, but I didn’t think having talked to various schools, me being a veteran and with prior college that was not. I was never under any academic probation in my previous college so I … Nothing in my record would have other-other than a DUI, nothing in my record would have suggested that I would have been a failure here, so or anywhere. So they had no reason to deny me plus I’m a veteran so and schools love that, schools know that amount of state granted [inaudible 00:48:57] and considered in state as far as GI Bill’s concerned but ah as far as … But I’m from out of state so it adds a certain diversity that a apparently colleges like, so not that I’m diverse because I look like everyone else here. Ah …
 

TL:
Where’s your home town?
 

Jason:
It’s funny you ask that cause my dad’s a … My dad’s a Methodist minister, so as far as we … And he comes from a long line of nomads. My mom is a military brat so she comes from a long line of nomads. I am a nomad for all intents and purposes I’ve never lived anywhere for more than 4 years in my life. Ah in fact this may be the first place. Not that I’ve [inaudible 00:49:39] I’ve only been here since August of last year. I don’t know ah as far as hometown-hometown is literally wherever the fuck my car is parked.
 

TL:
So what are the hobbies that you said you heard?
 

Jason:
Oh so yeah so when I was … My first deployment I tried this it didn’t work and I’ve tried this before several years, hell even before I joined the army. I tried writing a novel I tried. It always it always like prrrr, you get tired of it, it doesn’t seem to be going the right place y-y-y your [inaudible 00:50:15] yourself. Ah and you’re backing yourself in a corner so you can’t write yourself without it at least not, not with any very similar to you can’t … Uh so it just and the more and if you ever run into any author you’re always going to find when they’re first writing.
 

 
They put a lot more sex into their novels than would be warranted unless they’re wri-unless they’re writing erotic literature [inaudible 00:50:55]. If you ever get the chance to ask authors these things I’m-I’m not an author I just I’ve just written stuff but it’s something I’ve read over the years apparently seems the whole truth. Because my first one was like [inaudible 00:51:10] this is fucking big I don’t need this anyway. I tried writing that uh my second employment it ain’t so much write any novels although it’s funny and I wish it’s funny because I did write like … I did write a SOP which is standing operating procedure for …
 

 
In the military this is ubiquitous they’re everywhere, you have standard operating procedures for how to use the bathroom that’s a joke but only so much, y-y-so, yeah so SOPs is what they’re known as so you have SOPs for everything. So I bought a coffee pot off Amazon, ah I don’t know when I bought somewhere in the second deployment I bought this thing. I didn’t want anyone using it because I saw how people treated just communal shit they don’t treat it well. And I wanted this thing right, so I bought it and then I wrote a 19 page SOP written entirely in legalese because I wanted to be an asshole.
 

 
And I very much was one because in the saying this is nothing more than … It basically, it basically boiled down to, “No one’s touching my goddamn coffee pot.” But I wrote it in … Entirely in legalese with these really complex senses that just drag on and on and on and on and on. And it serves no good purpose other than as an outlet through my creativity, or outlet for something I wanted to, something inside me wanted to come out I don’t know what it was, this is an absurd manifestation of that. Ah so my 3rd deployment, just before the 3rd deployment I had this idea to write something and it seems plausible and I was like, “Holy fuck.”
 

 
And so I was like, “Okay fine,” fine so I started it and started and just stuck with it each and every day. And not only that knowing that from … So basically I think I started in December 2014, by March 6th I know the date by March 6th I finished the first draft and the first words out of my mouth as soon as I finished writing were, “Holy f***.” I finished it, I finished it. Because I have ideas [inaudible 00:53:55] for days, so I’ll start something here there and I’ll never get around it and getting anywhere with it.
 

 
I play around with languages all the time so like scripts, so I’ve had various fancies about learning Pharisee or learning Hindi or what not. So I’ve learned the scripts to some extent I can probably write some things in, but never really I don’t know, I don’t know if there’s no direction, no motivation, no drive I don’t know what it is, but anyway this is one thing where I haven’t actually had enough drive to finish it. Not only that I was able to continue momentum to write 2 more drafts, no I actually like the second one better. I like the content better you know.
 

 
I think the first one’s better, edited better, executed better, It’s more complete. And the third on is just a farce, not a farce as far as my abilities but a farce like literally written as a farce. It’s I [inaudible 00:55:09] anything with that one it’s … But and hell I still work on it the day like over spring. Just before spring break I make it a point to whittle-whittle down word count on the first one because it’s still too long this in a publisher’s believe me I’ve tried. No, no seriously that’s the other thing I tried during this 3rd deployment to send that first novel.
 

 
I send it to like 40 different literary agents because more is better right? Well more just means more rejections. And basically it’s all, it’s too fucking long. So I’ve whittled it down over the mini months that have occurred between then and now, and it’s closer it’s a lot closer. And one day it may … One day I may get it to where I want it.
 

TL:
What’s it about?
 

Jason:
Oddly enough it’s a, it’s a, it’s a saga but it’s not meant … It’s not apparent that it’s one when it first starts. Ah this is probably my problem because I can’t even explain what it is.
 

TL:
(Laughing)
 

Jason:
Ah, you have 4 different sets of people ah one is … One starts off with this, this, this boy in Northern New Mexico is very poor and wants something, you know wants basically to be rich so he can support his family. 2nd one starts off with this fairly upper middle class guy who’s working for a firm that doesn’t really care. He’s start-he’s starting to lose interest but no he has a daughter that’s very, ah a daughter-a daughter that’s very ah sexually promiscuous at a young age. So he’s trying to act like he has to rein her in. 3rd one is ah abusive mother’s psychotic bitch really just takes out everything on her son and is really the power … Holds the reins of power in her family, even though her husband’s a senator.
 

 
And then the 4th one’s just two-these 2 guys in prison, ah and … but what’s not apparent and like I know I’m spoiling my own [inaudible 00:57:42] but what’s not apparent is that all these people are connected like that young boy becomes the ah becomes that upper middle class guy whose daughter is the psychotic bitch. Whose son is one of these guys in jail and I can, and I use a little magic real-magic realism ah vis-à-vis [inaudible 00:58:08] Marquez to connect this guy, connect the other prisoner back to the teacher who helps this first kid.
 

 
Now what inspired me to do all that was looking at an analogue clock I was not … I looked at it time is-time is sick like and that’s very much incorporated in my novel. Ah now and that time is sick like but I tell the 4-the 4 stories like simultaneously, you know part one, part 2 part 3 part 4 back to part 1 so on and so forth. So as it looks … So as you have a clock that’s going from 12 you know clockwise you have these 4 stories also going clockwise. But it’s almost like they were one quarter of a story, so one connects to the other connects to the other one connects to the other one connects to the other one connects to the other one and you have a full. So structurally it’s very I think it’s very sound it might be fairly crazy ah …
 

TL:
Like the minutes make up … Or the seconds make up the minutes.
 

Jason:
Yeah, something along those lines yeah and it’s a … In that I include a lot the theme that time is sickly and all these many other things in there as well. Yeah so that’s what the first one’s about.
 

TL:
That sounds great. (Laughing)
 

Jason:
Good maybe I, maybe I described it fairly well. I don’t know how well the story … I don’t know how good of a story tell I am I don’t know. I had one person read it, one person that actually took the time to actually read enough of it, well he read the whole thing but ah he’s the only person I know of. And one person I wanted to read it the second [inaudible 00:59:48] the woman who had kids and I-I gave her all three of these, and she did not seem interested and that broke my heart, that fucking broke my heart. I was like, “Well hell if I can’t even reach her who am I going … Who is going to read this shit?
 

TL:
(Laughing)
 

Jason:
I’ll send it to him, I’ll send it to one of the drafts because I st-like I said they’re all like a machine right there in my …
 

TL:
Right.
 

Jason:
Ah …
 

TL:
So what’s your dream now? You know like where do you see your life going from here? Or where do you want it to go I guess?
 

Jason:
Where I want it to go and where I see it are 2 div-2 very divergent paths. Ah I don’t … Yeah I still hold very much to the bleak outlook of life I do-I don’t see it going anywhere. I mean even, even with taking an actuarial job or even if someone were to read that and actually find enough inspiration for this the … Get it published or what not. Even with all that stuff at the end of the day it’s like it doesn’t matter. I-I don’t know. I [inaudible 01:01:13] between being hopeful and being dismally ah whatever, and obviously ostensibly right now it’s like I’m in a more dismal state. But I don’t know because I want to know everything, you know.
 

 
Like I went to ah, I went to ah, ah a concert last night ah so [inaudible 01:01:47] ah obviously you know very talented woman playing very difficult pieces. Did you go to that?
 

TL:
Mm mm (Negative).
 

Jason:
No, we have a very talented woman doing that. Ah then I realized that’s not her art she’s just replicated someone, she’s rendering someone else’s art to life she’s bringing it to life. Ah and that maybe fine for her if it is by all means I hope I hope she enjoys it, I don’t know so I don’t know where I am going with [inaudible 01:02:27] with what your question was. Ah and I just want to do everything I-I would love to create all these things since you know I get frustrated about going online more than anything, ah which is why I’m surprised I was able to finish anything at all.
 

 
And it’s still not finished in the sense that they’re not, no they’re finished they could be read by people. Ah they’re coherent, they’re not polished they’re coherent they’re … Do I … You know am I doing it for me or am I doing it for … And that’s what I questioned I question everything in my life. So, so where do I see myself? I don’t know I really don’t.
 

TL:
So what does your tattoo say?
 

Jason:
Ah the joke or the series? You know I’ll give you the joke first.
 

TL:
Both.
 

Jason:
Ah cause um the joke is ah just for people that don’t you know people who can’t see it which is everyone but the interviewer.
 

TL:
(Laughing)
 

Jason:
Ah it’s Hebrew that basically runs up my forearm ah written from, written from wrist to basically elbow in the script. So Hebrew is anyone who knows is read from ah read from right to left as opposed to left to right, so it would start at the wrist and go with the elbow. Now ah that being said the Hebrew script the joke is it’s my name and address just in case the Israeli only finds me they can mail me back home. Yes ah then I always get the dumb questions, “What happens when you change the dresses?” or “What happens if you know your arm gets separated from the wrist out here are you’re going to just nail your arm back on?”
 

 
And those are … Those are funny questions that feel because I used to elaborate on this joke in the sense that I would tell people, “Now I’ve coordinated with the post master general that they just forward my-forward my arm to whatever current address I provided them. So this is just the address though it’s changed is still very much applicable.”
 

TL:
(Laughing)
 

Jason:
For those who have audio only eyes roll back in the head. Ah the dumbest thing the dumbest thing with the tattoo is like, “Is that f****** Chinese?” People used to ask me is that … If they ask me if it was Arabic I’d be like, “No but thank you know you know no but thanks for thinking,” ah and the ones that said, “Was that Chinese?” I’ll just like you know I … You know if they had the mental equivalent of a [inaudible 01:05:51] I’d tell them to blow their heads off. Ah cause they’re useless their drains on society.
 

 
George Karl was right, “A few winners and a whole lot of losers,” but anyway ah seriously the joke-seriously-the joke, seriously the tattoo is ah I got it before I even joined the army. Ah as part of my I’ve … I had this silly idea at the time to ah maybe I should follow my dad’s footsteps my dad being [inaudible 01:06:30] minister maybe I should because I was very very much attempted to believe. And the protestant faith not necessarily Methodist per say although I had nothing wrong with it, I-I wasn’t confining myself to that.
 

 
Ah and I was shaped by youth minister back in the back in my teenage years, you shaped my opinion and probab-and you know it was a good intention of his but you know good intentions pave the road to hell. So it-it probably stunted a lot of my thinking for a while, it kept me from exploring things for a while me being the guy who questions everything it kept me from questioning things for years which is very detrimental to me. it kept me from exploring things because those things were less-you know less than holy.
 

 
But anyway this tattoo was some manifestation that it existed outside of just my head that there was something. It’s from ah Psalm 50 verse 6 and it’s in Hebrew, for those who are unfamiliar with Psalm 50 verse 6 very last verse in psalms and go right into Proverbs after that. It’s “[Inaudible 01:07:57] hallelujah,” if you don’t know that then learn Hebrew ah no kidding. Ah “Let everything that has breath praise the Lord,” so that was it, that was it right? I’m sure I brought you the pronunciation by the way. Ah the Hebrew not the English. But yeah, yeah so I get that right so that’s what it meant that’s what that is. Although I think the joke’s funny.
 

TL:
(Laughing)
 

Jason:
Think the joke’s bettered itself.
 

TL:
So what’s one thing about yourself that you hope people who meet you or you know when they no longer get to experience you ah you hope that they remember about you?
 

Jason:
I hope I’m not remembered, ah cause I-I-I have known … That might be a little harsh I don’t know. I’m going to live on and [inaudible 01:08:54], if the writing takes often so be it I’ll live on to that, if I live on through the people I’ve encountered and whatever influences I’ve had on them so be it. I have no aspirations towards immortality, I’m not, I’m not Genghis khan, I’m not … I’m not Adolf Hitler I don’t have these ambitions toward immortality that people want to … People subconsciously pursue, maybe obviously to some extent I probably do pursue it but I-I don’t really care I have embraced anonymity.
 

 
It is a good … anonymity I think is a good thing for me, one it keeps me from being too egotistical about a lot of things from thinking I am the end all and be all of life cause I still very much think I am. And problem is everyone else in the world thinks that I … This is my voice. I think everyone thinks they’re the center of their own universe, problem is when you take that belief to the point where you’re the only thing in the universe and everyone else is just props, which is something I held for a long time, you know. You’re just here to fulfill my ends, full-fulfill the means to my ends. I don’t really care what you're-I don’t really care what your purpose, what you believe your purpose in life is. Then that was something I held for the longest time. Well, I didn’t even think about it really. It was just something that default. So, I think everyone pushes their own immortality, but I'm trying to-to deny myself that. I don't want that. I don’t want to ... If I'm forgotten 5 years after I die, whatever, because I won’t care. Why does it matter?
 

TL:
So do you have any advice for ... It could be future generations of people, civilians, or it could be soldiers going into ...
 

Jason:
I don’t know about advice. I will ... Things I’ve noticed. Ah, one: It’s a very small world. So, military is just an example of a small world amplified. Ah, and when I say it’s a small world, I say that because the interviewer in myself for those who are listening, ah, are in the same music class, all right? So, having had a very great discussion about last names I believe it was. Ah, she, you know, she-she mentioned what her last name was, and ah, I was like, “Okay, you know, just one of those things.” I ... And I have a-I have a very-a-a-a strong enough memory where I can just kind of hear things and, or see things and, especially see things, and just kind of it’s there, it stays there. That’s not everything though. There’s, ah, but, no so okay, so her-her, she tells me her last name or whatever.
 

 
I go into the military lounge because I don’t know, I'm hungry and I hear there’s food there. Or, maybe I'm just there in between one of my class, between one of my classes or whatnot. I don’t even know if it’s the same day or if it’s like a day after, but I look and I see you know the Beat your Gums thing on her ... I guess how-how Tara got her scholarship. I presume that’s the case yeah, or at least some of it. Ah, oh okay, I was like, “Wait, a bit.” I look at the name I was like, “Wait, that’s just ...” I was like, “Small world huh?” So, I you know I put a ... I sent an email out to the addre-to the email address she provided, ah that you provided, and ah I was like, I was like, “Okay, you know I let me let me send this out.”
 

 
And part of my benignly sinister ah, you know some might call it mischievous. Maybe I call it benignly sinister, because it is somewhat sinister. I was like, “I wonder if she knows who this is.” And I'm going to ask the question, “Did you know who I was when I was ...?”
 

TL:
I had an idea, but I–I was like, but then there could be like a million Jasons or like I couldn’t yeah ...
 

Jason:
Oh well, well my last name, my last name is not too common. It’s not too rare, but it’s not too common either. But, ah I was like, but I knew who it was as soon as I, I was like, “I know who this is.” Then let me go ahead. Let me just be ... It’s mischievous, be-benignly sinister. Sent an email out, although I had an intention of ... I saw that, I was like, “Okay, I'm going to do this regardless of who’s doing the interview.” So, okay cool. And then let me just keep it, you know, maybe more sinister than benign. Just not say anything, and see what happens. I don’t know if I would muddy the waters so to speak, by saying, “Hey, hey we’re doing that thing,” yeah, I know. I don't know. But, ah so wait was the question? You had asked me something.
 

TL:
It was your advice, but it ...
 

Jason:
Advice okay. So that’s part, so one it’s a very small world and that’s how it started with that. It’s ah-ah that’s proof of a small world that couple (laughing) and there is one in the army that was really, that actually ... I-had several small world instances in the army where you run into people over and over again, but 2 really stick out to me. One was this guy, ah, it’s this Hispanic solider who’s still when I first met him, very thick. [Inaudible 01:15:10] accent, and you could not, I don’t know if I did that whatever, but [Foreign Language 01:15:15] whatever is very thick. I mean, the last time I saw him it was still very thick, but ... So, first union I'm in, stationed there, he’s-he’s an air man clerk, and I'm the chaplain assistant, he’s an E4 specialist and I'm an E3 part of first class. So, we know each other for about 6 months, you know.
 

 
We don't-we don’t hang out but we’re not you know, we’re not. We’re just kind of [inaudible 01:15:46] or apathetic towards each other, we don’t, you know, it doesn’t really matter. But he, I think he’s married with a wife, well a wife and maybe a kid or 2 or whatnot, and I'm single at the time, so we really don’t have anything in common. That’s fine, whatever. So, about 6 months we know each other. About ah, in Hawaii I ran into this guy again. He’s in-he’s in Hawaii now stationed, he’s since changed jobs MOS’s to ah become military intelligence, because it’s better for his career. Which extends, haven’t seen him later in life, but it was. So, this is about a 5 year break where he is-he is now in E6 and I'm also in E6, and I'm still a chaplain assistant at this time.
 

 
So, we ran into ... And this-this is a very short meeting because even though he’s stationed in Hawaii, I'm stationed in Hawaii, we only see each other for like 5 minutes, and then I never see him again in Hawaii. Ah and then, like 5, about 5 years later, I see this guy again. He’s in E7 at this point, still MI, still military intelligence MI, and now I'm in E5 having lost rank from the DUI. Ah, and I'm an E5, and we’re in ah, we’re in ah Grafing here in Germany, and this is preparation for us to go to Afghanistan for my last deployment, and he’s just stationed in Germany, and he’s supporting this effort. Um, so yeah, we’re like, “Dude we just keep ...“, so every 5 years we’re going to keep, I don’t know I'm going-I'm going to see him 3 years from now, he’s going to be doing whatever. I told him-I told him, “Next time you see me I'm going to be mister. Ah, I'm not going to be a solider anymore.”
 

 
He’s like, “Ah,” It’s like you know what if I see him 3 years from now, I'm not, that would not surprise me one bit. So, the army is a very small world. That’s the one, that’s one example. Ah, many other, many other things, many other people I’ve seen once or twice, one-offs or whatnot, but the other one, (laughing) was ah Brett C******. Brett C****** was executive officer under ah, Colonel C****** and ah and stuck in battalion 16 Infantry when I was in Iraq. Ah, he lived right next to Chaplain, I lived in the same hooch, the same little building or whatnot, room that’s probably about the size of this one. Not even, ah, but not Major Brett C****** at the time, he lived next door, and you know we worked well together. I mean we really didn’t work together because he’s the – he’s the second in charge of the battalion, and here I am just some lowly gent, lowly enlisted guy.
 

 
So, he’s–he is, he’s present when I'm promoted from E45, so he’s present for that event, ah, which happens in time earlier. Ah, we deployed-we deployed like I said, ah, one major thing I remember, I even say he was getting chaplain wanted to get a hair, wanted to give a haircut so that once he got back to, once he got back to the States, he could actually cut his own kid’s hair. It-it-it worked it worked for Iraq, I don’t know if he ever did, ended up cutting his kid’s hair or not. I don’t know, but you know, so he was-he was about to start cutting ah Major C******’s hair and then I remember more there about we-we heard the motor drop into the tube. This is how close it was. We actually heard them drop the motor into the tube. We heard, whoosh, or like we knew it was coming before it launched.
 

 
It’s like, “F***,” and then obviously it launches and we’re like ... And we’re doing this outside because it’s, you know it’s nicer outside than it is in a room, plus we don’t want our hair everywhere. Ah, so we eventually started ... I remember us all moving to see color, just right as he’s about to get his hair cut. So, anyway, later on-later on, I find out, he’s actually Battalion Commander at ... He’s been promoted since. He’s Battalion Commander at the Airborne School when I go through. Ah, so that man was there, he was there when I got promoted from E45, but he was also there when I got demoted from E65. So, this guy, (laughing) wow he-he book ends my-my period. Yeah, well rather, ah um maybe that’s not right, but he’s there. So those are my 2 very small world things. So, for anyone listening, it’s a small world out there, it really is.
 

 
You run-you run into people you thought you would never see. Ah, other observations. I don’t know that, again I don’t know that I have any advice per se, but people are people. People, military, civilian, it doesn’t matter, they’re all, they’re all the same. Military is just a microcosm of-of population that exists. So, if the population is going to be ah, so if the population is leaning left politically then the military is going to lean left politically, the members of the military are going to lean left politically. If they leaning right, then they’re going to lean right so on and so forth. Ah, military is a very aggressive institution, in a sense that you know, Universal Healthcare has existed there forever. Ah, racism, yes. There’s always the-there’s always the moanings about he got his rank because he’s-he’s black or because they need more women than them, or and sexism.
 

 
So, these things exist, but it’s like, okay just do your f******* job, and it ends up being, it’s like okay yeah, we may bitch, moan and complain about these things, but at the end of the day it’s like (laughing) we really don’t care (laughing). So, it’s like, it’s kind of the Utopia people would want in life, ah as far as a nice diverse culture, it exists. It’s-it’s already there. The problem is it’s like it’s all regimented and we’re all equally worthless as far as the command is concerned. So, that’s where we find our ah-that’s where we find our egalitariasm, egalitarian, that’s where we find our equality. You know, we’re all equally worthless.
 

 
Ah, so but yeah, there’s-there’s always the-there’s always underpinnings of racism and sexism, and there’s-there’s always a class disparity between the officers and the enlisted the upper-the up-the upper enlisted and lower enlisted. There’s always ... There so, yeah, it, military is just a microcosm of society at large, and the people themselves are people. They’re, soldiers aren’t any more brave than any-any other civilians, they’re not, because I remember there was one week people f***** freak out over having to jump out of a 34-foot tower. They’re tied-they’re attached to a fucking cable, you’re not going to hurt yourself. Ah, not-not on a 34-foot tower, you’re not going to hurt yourself.
 

 
And there are people scared to jump out of that. I'm like, “Oh my God.” People are idiots as far as in the military and out, as far as how to-how to write coherent sentences, how to ... And I don’t say that as someone has writ-who’s having written something. I say that as someone who has a decent amount of intelligence. Ah, just people are f****** idiots. Ah, there’s ah, you know, people don’t know their histories, people don’t ... You know so the-these you know military is not there. I would-I would say, my some of my military perception is based on what my dad, he served a very short period of time in the military. He didn’t, he never served in combat. He would say he’s a veteran I would laugh in his face. Ah, he would say, “But, you know I'm still a veteran, I’m just not a combat,” I mean go f*** yourself. Ah, because it’s you know, ah, but I know I'm jumping all over the place.
 

TL:
It’s okay.
 

Jason:
Ah, I think I lost my thought. Where was I? People, people, some of my experience shaped my-shaped by my dad. He’s like, “Yeah basically training it’s all a game,” you know. Like military is just a game, they just want, they want this that and the other. I'm like, “Okay cool got it.” So that helps, you know, that helps me shape that, and it’s like, “Yeah, they-they put on this front of being, ah this machismo and bravado and all this other stuff that” you know, you know what I mean. I mean hell when I was in-when I was in the infantry battalion never felt right, you know, how many people just-just went AWOL or went, because they wanted to go home because they couldn’t deal with the fact the sergeant was yelling at them and all this other stuff. I mean f*** him. Yeah, I was going-going to die tribe oh you know, how much they just can’t suck it up.
 

 
You know this is how the-didn’t they just come from a culture that just didn’t let them suck it up I guess, I don’t know. They just can’t accept their circumstances, except the fact that someone's yelling at you. Okay, in fact I had just one where, oh and it’s, you know if you, I guess if there is the good advice you know, if someone is yelling at you and they’re a position of power over you, blank face, listen intently, try not to roll your eyes, just listen, uh huh, mm hmm. I get it, I get it, I get it, I get it. I don’t agree with you at all, but I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to keep my mouth shut, just keep nodding the head every now and then and doing this, yes, yes. Aqueous for the moment. You don’t have to agree, just kind of have to put on a fact that says, “Yeah, it’s okay,” and then bitch about it later to your friends.
 

 
Ah, it doesn’t matter, (laughing) because in the end it really doesn’t matter. I did drink a all that. Ah, other advice, or I'm so ... Do what you want to do. Yeah, in the army, yeah deployments are great you know. You really get to explore who you are. All right, you-you explore the riding you explore various you know ... Some people go to the gym all the time, some people you know, but some people just watch DVDs, their collection or-or but a collection of whatever-whatever media exists nowadays that holds movies. I don't know. Some people just want to be entertained. Some people have no ambition other than to live life, and some people don’t even think about living life, they just kind of do it. I hold a very low opinion of people. So I think they should pursue more than just that, but I can’t make people do anything.
 

 
Ah, but deployments are great in the sense that if-if they wanted to get in better shape, the opportunity is there. If you wanted to write books, the opportunity was there. If you wanted to get a degree, the opportunity was there. Some people took these things, some people did it, and I don’t know I guess I explored my own. So, yeah, advice, or observe ... You’re going to have to live life yourself. I mean, because not just you, but people in general, you’re going to have to live life yourself and find out through your own experience because history was full of-full of people who did not take advice and just learn to regret it, because they had to experience it themselves. Ah, and I guess that’s part of life, that’s the paradox of it all.
 

 
Yeah, because if you actually take someone’s advice, you know live it and you regret not having made mistakes. It’s-it’s the axe of omission that I you know probably would regret, I don’t regret-I don’t regret getting married. I don’t regret-I don’t regret taking a married woman from someone else. I don’t. It was wrong, I'm going to say that, it was wrong, and, but I-I, it’s not like I just took her, she willingly you know conceded, so ... To be fair she approached me first, so ... Ah, so something wasn’t right for her. But anyway, ah, I don’t, but I don’t regret that. I learned a lot. I-I God, I learned how to treat a woman, based on that, that relationship. I did, if I had treated my wife the way I-I treated her, my wife would have never left me. So I learned a lot from that. So, I don’t regret the things I did. I-I probably regret some of the things I didn’t do. Ah, yeah, that’s those are my observations. The-the wisdom of Jason Mcgarvey.
 

TL:
(Laughs)
 

Jason:
Yeah, ah that’s all I got for that, yeah.
 

TL:
Alright, well is there anything else that you’d like to share that you ...
 

Jason:
I see you have more questions there or is that, did you miss any?
 

TL:
Nope.
 

Jason:
What is that?
 

TL:
Pretty much everything that I would have asked, has – has been covered at some point.
 

Jason:
Well I'm curious, I mean I see that, in front of me just ...
 

TL:
[crosstalk 01:30:06]
 

Jason:
Yeah, because I don’t know. Name of company ... Yeah we did. Ah huh, yeah okay. So the hobbies, the hometown I guess you gave them my history throughout the answer the first question. Oh, what did I want to do when I grew-grew up? So, yeah I didn’t-I didn’t answer all these questions. Okay well, here I am. I’ve taken-I’ve taken the script from her, so yeah if she’s complaining about it later, then this is why. Oh, what made you interested in joining the army? I already answered that. Okay what did I want to be when I grew up? I had no clue. I still don't, you know because I still haven’t grown up yet. Ah, how old am I? I am old as dirt, I’m actually just 34, so not in this ... Could I change my decision? No. You know what? I don’t know that I would join the army if I could, that might be one regret I have.
 

 
One act of commission and that I would say was wrong to join the army. I-I'm not, I'm too anti-social. I'm too no, I'm too anti-establishment, I don’t really care for-don’t really care for the way the control that exists within, you know the control of one person over another. I don’t really care for that, and the military is full of it. Of course, life’s full of it, no matter what country you live in, your government’s going to say things, gonna to limit you, let me put it that way. Ah, do you have any stories about your deployments you’d like to share? Other than, I guess kind of shared some of those. I will say, yeah deployments, there are you know, there’s some bits, there is some fun stuff, most of it is boring.
 

 
Just so you know for anyone who’s never been on deployment, which is probably most of the US population, they’re probably about 99% sheer boredom. I mean like, oh my God, time draws out like a blade. That’s why, and that’s why you have time to do all these things that, to improve yourself because you’re so bored. You’re so cut off from society or you don’t have as much access to the things that you would back here. Like you know if Tara wanted to go out to a restaurant she can go out to a restaurant any time she wanted. She couldn’t necessarily do that up there. If she wanted to go out and hang out with her friends, after you know yeah, she just wanted to go for a drive she can do that, but you can’t do that down range. Ah, so you have all this time, ah you’re stuck. Oh, what do I do for fun? Did I ever see any care packages?
 

 
You know there is this whole movement after a while where everyone received care packages, whether they wanted to or not. Ah some of them were full of shit, ah some of them were just kind of like, “Really, you have no idea what a solider needs.” Some of this stuff was like so impractical. People like, and I'm a minimalist, I'm somewhat of a prag-pragmatist in the sense that if-if I don’t need it, why do I have it? Ah, but no people would sew these scarves that were like you couldn’t wear them because they weren’t part of the military ... No, no they didn’t fit any, they were so garish. Ah, it’s like I can’t wear this. Some of them were just so embarrassing, it’s like, “Why the f*** would I want to wear this?” It’s not that, those care packages, a lot of them just fucking dumping grounds for people who are getting rid of their old shit.
 

 
They never, you know you could see who put the time in and effort, and it was usually just your friends, your friends or your family or whatnot, and I would say the one, ah, one-the one I liked I guess the most was one of the churches my dad was at, when he was preaching, they ah, they made-they made some money doing ah, basically ah packaging peanuts, like not packaged. Like roasted peanuts, they would actually package them as opposed to the-the peanuts that were known for packaging. Ah, but they sent me a case of these things, and oh my God, oh my God, I love those things, I love those things. Ah, but yeah. Those-those are good because and I shared very little of those because you know, I'm-um nothing against them, but I'm not a communist. Ah, I don’t share. Ah, so what’s it like to come home?
 

 
That-that’s one I wish you would have asked that question. So, I'm going to answer it now. I remember, like hardly even the first time I went on leave, ah, from Iraq. I remember just being surrounded by this [Liuten 01:35:19] brown everywhere, like everywhere, and then I remember getting off the plane in Narita, because I went on leave in Tokyo to meet my then wife. I remember not smelling shit, because we like, like we were surrounded by ... It’s funny because the camp-the camp is on some nice little tributary to the Tigress in Baghdad, and ah to the west of the camp was this dump, like literally it was a dump. Ah people just throw their trash there and they burn it every other day, or whatnot. To the east was a nice little sewage plant wired treatment plant that just had been broken down for years.
 

 
To the north was this nice little creek that I think ran into the, eventually ran into the Tigress. And to the south was this nice little camp that the Iraqi national army had at one point, I don’t know the history well enough, but ah we never went over there. Ah we just stayed in the-you know we stayed in the midst of burning trash and rotten sewage, and so it smelt like shit for 14 months. And you smell, you got, you know you ignored this after a while, but ... So it’s just a conk, just breathe air, especially in Japan, just to breathe that Japanese air was like, “Oh my God,” and I look around I see green. You know it was October so just the feel of a nice little chill but not people frozen to death. Oh my God, that was, and in the ride the trains, like be surrounded by people, I said, okay I'm still not, it’s still not ... If there’s one thing that has changed it’s just that I-I don’t like being surrounded by a shit ton of people anymore.
 

 
I don’t know that I ever did, but that’s one thing. I-I can’t go-I can’t go into a grocery, a crowded grocery store, I can go into a crowded grocery story anymore, but I just get very irritable. Even last night I was somewhat irritable having to sit in close proximity with people around me watching a lovely violinist play. Ah, just my military experience has-my military experience as a whole has changed my perception. I'm a lot more cosmopolitan than I was 12 years ago, 13 years ago. A lot more, and it all started in Okinawa and just it progressed from there. Ah, I see that I did answer everything else. Okay, ah cool, but-but I saw that one thing. I was just, I wanted to address that, so sorry to abscond with your paper.
 

TL:
That’s okay. Do you have anything else, any random story that comes to mind?
 

Jason:
Ah, see I remember-I remember riding my bicycle ... I remember riding someone’s bicycle drunk through the streets in Japan one time and crashing into the gate. Of course you know it was like 5 miles an hour, so I just hopped off and ... I remember-I remember-I remember passing out several times in Japan after having had too much to drink. Ah, they had these places in Japan that were like basically 2,000 Yen which approximately 20 bucks, for 2 hours all you can eat and drink (laughing). Yeah, so you know, you pre-game it by drinking obscene amounts of alcohol before and then shelter it is 2,000 all you can eat and drink, stuff yourself full of rice so you can absorb some of that, and then drink all the soju. Soju is basically the rice wine, it’s more Korean but Japanese love this shit.
 

 
Ah, basically you-you’re mixing it with Kool-Aid and you don’t know you’re drinking until you stand up. If-if you’re not, if you’re not averse to drinking alcohol, I’d say try it once, and you know don’t, ah, um but yeah, I remember passing out in the bathroom when this place has been picked up by people who came with me, ah at the end of those 2 hours. You know they had forgotten about me during those 2 hours. It’s like, “Hey, wait a minute. Where is Jason?” They grab me out of there like passed out on the floor like passed out.
 

TL:
(laughs)
 

Jason:
On the floor and you know riding the train back, I remember falling asleep on the train to the point where you miss, you stop and go all the way to the terminus, and it’s like you have to come back it … Ah, but you know I’m not the only one with those experiences. Ah, I remember, I remember being on top of the house in Iraq with motley crew people like our battalion, our major, a few other random people and me were on top of a roof after someone had given some pot shots. And we’re on the roof like intent on finding this guy, like from the roof looking so we’re going to, so we can you know blow his brains out. We know, and we never see him because he’s just running through the mahalos back there, and but still see and I remember intently just the immense hyper vigilance that’s there and looking for that guy.
 

 
And just yeah he never, he never showed up. Ah, there-there is some heart break, you know there’s … I remember ah not personal but there’s just-just you-you, you think your life’s shitty. You just you know observe in the military long enough, you see some shitty stuff. Like one guy he realized it and then 3 weeks later he’s blown up. He’s a gunner in one of the vehicles and the vehicle is blown up and now I mention this because I remember helping carrying him from one vehicle to the evac, to the evac vehicle so that they can take him to the cash to-to the hospital there. And you know having the … And I remember having a lose pair of boots because they were you know blood on them, and I can’t do anything, well I certainly can’t wear them anymore. It takes bio acid to … Ah, but he-he didn’t enlist in.
 

 
We enlisted 3 weeks before, so obviously death, death means the end of his term of service but it’s obviously but he still gets whatever came with that term of service other than life. Ah, worst one I ever saw Jesus Christ I remember doing the … And this-this is what people were like damn this you know sometimes life sacks. Because ah this guy was it, so it had to be like a Friday night, this is in September of ‘07 so it had to be like a Friday night. Ah he … Friday night back in States it’s probably Saturday morning here in Iraq. Men I thought I was in a Iraq for a second, ah Saturday like Friday morning, like Friday night in the States like Saturday morning in Iraq, he gets a call from his wife. His wife says, “Congratulations you’re a father.”
 

 
Like she had just had the baby and whatnot, he’s like you know and he was like super, he’s super f****** stocked before than once before he’s like yeah I’m going to yeah. All the, all the good natured ah pride that comes with someone becoming a father right? I-I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t know I don’t have any kids but I assume that exists. Ah, so he has all that right? And then so Sunday he goes out on patrol. Explosively point formed projectile, EF, we call them EFPs basically US populace knows them as IEDs bombs basically. Ah just rips him to shreds, he is dead within like 24, 36 hours of knowing that he just became a father. He was a good dude too I mean he was smart, he was smart and all this other things and he just … I don’t know why he ever joined the military because he could have done anything.
 

 
And that’s the other thing about the military. If you in other observation anybody I mean military is full you know from the damnedest mother f*******, to a most you know selfish entitled pricks. And then you got these real, many of these other like some nice, smart guys who could have done anything in life. And then you have you know the range in between. Yeah he was one, he was one of the smarter, one of the nicer guys. He got along with everybody, I don’t-I don’t you know he … That seems sort of cliché, oh you got along you know he ever … You always wanna, you always wanna boost someone up after they have died. Say, “Oh well he got along …” You never want to say, “This mother f****** was an asshole.” You never say that after someone dies, well I do. Most people don’t ah, but this guy really was just like genuinely a nice guy.
 

 
It’s a shame because, it’s a shame that had to happen but it didn’t have to. It’s a shame that happened, but stuff like that, and how I have internalized it everyday I don’t know. But anything else I-I don’t, I can’t ah just to conclude and bring you back to the coins, um there’s 2 coins I didn’t explain here. This one is a massive piece of junk, this is from our commanding general Joe Anderson. Joe Anderson was an interesting dude just to give you … You know he talked about interesting anecdote. We’re in Grafing area as I mentioned earlier training for to go to Iraq and me, Sergeant John, sergeant First Class John F******* and there was ah and there’s lieutenant R***, Collin R****. She was ah … so the 3 of us are responsible for setting up a video teleconference for the general and various other entities where I think.
 

 
So we’re setting up, we’re goofing, or off whatever they tie me up with my belt from my pants. They tie me up to a chair, and I get out, you know I get out of there just what not. And then I think it was john, I think it was with Sergeant F*******’s belt so he’s putting his belt back on just as General A******** walks through and he’s like, “You guys are having a party in here huh?” “Yes sir sure, care to join us?”
 

TL:
(Laughs)
 

Jason:
Ah, but he- he was a good-he was a good-he was a good guy. I mean he was-he was a relatable guy. He obviously is a general so he has to do his own staff functions, and he has to be very somewhat political in the sense he has … In the way he speaks to versus you know. Ah, and this other one is from the start, from the start major of the army at the time, ah God I can’t forget, I can’t remember his name but it didn’t matter because, it didn’t matter because all he was, was I-I don’t have a much of a good opinion about him. I think he was just out there to perpetuate some ah some agenda something like that. Again he-he was out there to put ah his own agenda, it really didn’t matter. And he got, also got that in Afghanistan, he was ba … We basically set up something for him so he could speak. So that when he came to Afghanistan to speak, he could ah it-it helped him.
 

 
Ah basically we set up um how’s that f ... There was video and audio for him to … He was appreciative of the effort so. And this is in Afghanistan where we’re fairly all stereo, so he was appreciative of the efforts so we got that. So that’s basically it, and to round that off ah do you have any questions? No?
 

TL:
(Laughs). You get them all. (Laughs). And if there’s nothing else you can think of, we can conclude for today. If there’s something that comes up later I would be happy to interview you again. Ah, other than that thank you for participating …
 

Jason:
Oh yeah.
 

TL:
I had a lot of fun.
 

Jason:
Did you?
 

TL:
Yeah.
 

Jason:
Did you? Because I’m-I’m really bad at eye contacts. I don’t know who, I don’t know who does, I don’t know who’s listening maybe that’s why people don’t listen to me. Maybe that’s why I don’t, I don’t maybe that’s why people don’t listen to me.
 

TL:
Well, I’ve had a lot of fun…
 

Jason:
Good.
 

TL:
And it was a pleasure listening to your story so
 

Jason:
Good, good.
 

TL:
And Looking at your friends (laughs)